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It seems that a number of Vimeo users are confused about aspect ratios and how to eliminate jaggies, so I put together this tutorial for you. With this guide, you will be able to export a clip from any miniDV camera in DVD high quality, that will get the "HD treatment" here on Vimeo, without your footage having to be HD. Here's a sample of the quality you will get from your miniDV PAL/NTSC non-HD camera if you export the right way for Vimeo: vimeo.com/411905
Please note however, that this "high quality" re-encoding for non-HD footage feature might disappear from Vimeo in the future (your existing videos should be unaffected if that's the case though). [[UPDATE: As of March 14 2008, this feature is removed by Vimeo -- bummer]]. Regardless, that's the correct way of exporting widescreen miniDV footage for the web/devices in full quality, so it's good to know anyway.
-- Method --
1. Make sure you set up your camera to shoot in widescreen. The "high quality" re-encoding at Vimeo is only possible for widescreen miniDV footage.
2. Import your footage to your PC with the video editor of your choice. You can now choose to either edit the footage, or just use a single unedited scene in which case go to step #3. If you choose to edit the footage first, make sure you export from your video editor in .avi DV widescreen interlaced mode, so quality loss remains minimal. Most video editors support exporting back to the same DV codec, and if not, use another intermediate lossless codec to export. Do not export in a lossy codec, make sure it's DV AVI or an intermediate lossless one (e.g. Huffyuv).
3. Download and install the freeware & open source Handbrake utility: handbrake.fr/?article=download
4. Then, load your file to convert on Handbrake, and make everything look like this: eugenia.gnomefiles.org/images/handbrake.png (use 872x480 resolution, 2500 kbps bitrate, the rest as in the screenshot)
4a. *IF* your camera is a PAL 16:9 camera, you can try exporting in 1280x720 at around 5000 kbps bitrate instead of the 872x480, 2500kbps suggestions above. But that's only if you shot in widescreen PAL. Resizing to 720p an NTSC widescreen or a PAL/NTSC 4:3 signal is not a good idea.
5. That's it, after a while (depending on the speed of your PC), you will have an .mp4 file, ready to be uploaded to Vimeo. When it's up, it should have the "HD treatment" and look all fabulous.
-- Some important notes --
* This kind of export will create DVD-quality files that are playable as-is on the XBoX360 and Sony PS3! It should be playable on the AppleTV too, but I don't have one to test.
* If you are proficient in using your video editor's exporting dialogs with similar settings we used here, then there's no reason to use Handbrake. However, most people can't do that, which why I wrote this tutorial, using a single utility for all cases. If you feel adventurous though, or if you are using a Mac, you can follow my other, HD, tutorials here vimeo.com/forums/topic:3671 and follow them exactly, except for 2-3 changes you will have to make to reflect your non-HD source footage: 872x480 size instead of 1280x720, 2.5 mbps instead of 5mbps of bitrate, and the right frame rate each time (29.97 for NTSC, 25 for PAL).
* I suggested the same exporting resolution (872x480) for both PAL and NTSC miniDV footage. In reality, widescreen PAL can go up to 1048x576, but that's quite some over-stretching over the original 720x576 recorded frame size and so a resize down to 872x480 can be beneficial in terms of quality.
* For those who are confused why we don't export at 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL), it's because in order to get widescreen in these resolutions, you have to set the "16:9 flag" in the internal format of these videos. Problem is, Vimeo and many other players usually don't respect these flags, and so your videos come out as 4:3. In order to go around this limitation, we export in aspect ratio 1.0000 (instead of 1.2121 for NTSC and 1.4568 for PAL), and so the 872x480 resolution is based on that aspect ratio. It's ok if you don't understand what I am talking about here, just trust the results.
* If you do not own a widescreen DV camera, in order to export with the right 4:3 aspect ratio you need to do the following: export at 768x576 for PAL, or at 656x480 for NTSC (at around 2000 mbps instead of 2500 shown in the Handbrake screenshot). You won't get the HD treatment at these 4:3 resolutions, but these are the right aspect ratio 1.000 resolutions you should be exporting for web usage from 4:3 miniDV.
I have installed/uninstalled Super twice and still the same problem with WMA, any ideas? No problems with Cyberlink PowerDVD when Super is installed - strange!
Also thanks for your above advice about rendering video files for the vimeo "HD reatment"; for PAL 720x576 (16:9) mpeg-2's I use VirtualDubMod to resize to 880x480 and the Xvid 1.1.0 codec to compress to 3000 kbps together with Lame mp3. I have uploaded to vimeo a .avi test video, using these settings, and it looked good in .flv
All the best, 4Moorhens2.
So it seems that there was a pre-existing problem that only became apparent when I installed SUPER - maybe I've got too many codecs of one sort or another: GSpot indicates 292 with Super installed!
Many thanks for your help, 4Moorhens2.
i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/preciousliex3/untitled-2.jpg
deinterlace to progressive appears to be selected but did not actually deinterlace my video.
I'm still having problems with SUPER and WMP, i.e. playback of mpeg-2 files on WMP with Super installed, maybe the latest version of SUPER (Feb 5 2008) has a few bugs - could you possibly link me to an earlier version?
Its not a big deal, because I prefer VirtualDubMod, but Super can convert HD .flv files to other formats and that is very useful - VirtualDubMod doesn't support them and Prism, which converts non-HD .flv's, always says "no thanks!" after converting the first few megabytes of a HD .flv.
All the best, 4Moorhens2.
I only have mpeg-2/WMP problems when SUPER is installed,when I uninstall it everything is fine. But many thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, the quick responses and the info.
Cheers, 4Moorhens2.
I hope this is not an "isolated issue" as well - but thanks again for your advice on the 1048x576 HD thing - think I've found the cause of my WMP/mpeg-2/Super problem: the PICVIDEO V2 codec, a latent trouble maker exposed when opening mpeg-2's with Explorer on a machine with a dual core cpu which have been rendered on a machine with a single core cpu without DEP and possibly somehow also troublesome with SUPER installed.
All the best, 4Moorhens2.
i did it but the aspect was super stretched out, i did everything according to the tutorial. also it is very choppy, can you tell me why? i already have deinterlace on
vimeo.com/658827
thanks!
is the format? that i uploaded the vid from my gs65 to the comp
then its in avi then i drpped the file into the super and it gave me an mp4
yea i made sure everything is exactly the same.
why is it that the fps has to be set at 29.9? why not more? is it a vimeo thingy
i upgraded to vista today, got vegass pro 8 and i edited a little clip
i saved it as the "Video for Windows (*.avi)" and the template is NTSC DV
according to super, if it runs in wmp, it should be able to convert!
i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/kurtrawr/supererror.jpg
i get that error when i try to convert it
So I tried converting one of the scenes to 24 fps Xvid with VirtualDubMod (same frame size and bit rate) and on the resulting .flv movement is much smoother.
How do you think vimeo could improve the conversion to 24 fps .flv?
With VirtualDubMod - e.g. mpeg-2 25 fps to Xvid 24 fps conversions - if one uses "Source Rate Adjustment" then there are noticable dropped frames, but with "Frame Rate Conversion" subject movement is much smoother although keeping audio in sync can be a problem.
Is it a similar thing with your Flash converters, i.e. the choice of dropped frames or out of sync audio?
Also, in the past, I have downloaded 25 fps .flv's from other sites - perhaps in the future vimeo may be able to to maintain the uploaded video's frame rate: be it 25 29.97 30 etc.....
Cheers, 4Moorhens2
But we can usually download the original file in its true format and that is a vimeo plus!
I uploaded a movie exported from Adobe Premiere. Since it is a 16:9 instead of widing resolution I decided to lower height in order to have square pixel with smaller file size.
The problem is that I export video in 720x405 and Vimeo turns it to 720x406 which will put a black line at the bottom. If I try to export video from Premiere with that settings Premiere will put black lines. My 720x405 is clean...Why is vimeo messing my dimensions? thanks!
vimeo.com/719586
I've got the same problem as Luke, my deinterlace box is locked for some reason, resulting in my video being interlaced, resulting in jaggy edges.
So, is there going to be a fix for this?
I made a channel called BIG-SD just to see the difference of the upsized SD vs stretched standard.
vimeo.com/bigsd
I really needed to have the same clips, but still the stretched is terrible. It's like youtube on steroids.
Is it not possible for anybody who prefers 4:3 to add black bands on either side of the image horizontally and make it up to a ratio of 16:9 at 1280x720 with suitable software?
One sees 4:3 set onto a 16:9 anamorphic frame in films and on TV quite frequently.
PAL 4:3 is 768x576 (it is not 720x576 after you make the aspect ratio 1.000)
PAL 16:9 is 1048x576
NTSC 4:3 is 656x480 (it is not 720x480 after you make the aspect ratio 1.000)
NTSC 16:9 is 874x480
I do not recommend resizing a miniDV resolution to bigger than its native resolution because this has a toll on the quality.
Might be worth making a short "slide show" video with some 1600X1200 photos at 1280x720 and see how it turns out.
What about data rate: is it worth going over 2000 kbps if the video is only intended to be uploaded to vimeo?
Many thanks Eugenia.
The result shows no noticable loss of quality over the orginal, but video files at that spec would be very large for uploading - maybe around 30 MB per minute of footage.
I wont upload anything like that just now, perhaps we can wait for any developments on the 1048x576, 720x576 or 720x480 DVD quality HD request... a "slide show" video using JPEG's at a low bit rate, of say 1000 kbps, at 1280x720 still seems to be a possibility...
No need to reply here with it btw, this thread had a particular purpose and this is an isolated issue.
It will still not deinterlace mpeg-2's, in fact it appears to struggle slightly to encode them to H.264 on my machine, but it handles an imported progressive or deinterlaced mpeg-2 just fine.
Thanks for your continued and valuable advice, 4Moorhens2.
Again many thanks for your continuing help, much appreciated, 4M2.
- PROYECT PROPERTIES: 720x576 / Par 1.4568 / Pal Dv / 25fps /interpolate fields / Lower field first / best rendering quality ?
- EXPORT: 880x 480 (or 1048 x 576) /Par 1.000 /25 fps / deinterlace / progressive scan / bit rate ~4.000 kbps ?
The orginal avi file plays the full video perfectly, but it seems that SUPER will not deinterlace this one section. I'm referring to my latest video during the night vision section: vimeo.com/1022863
If you have the chance to suggest anything to me it will be greatly appreciated.
Your tutorials are incredibles! Awesome!
I´m from Argentina, and now i´m encoding from DVpal to HD with the program you recomend: SUPER. Excelent!
Now i want to know if with "SUPER" can i encode an HDV video (1080 x 1440, 50i, of Sony Z1) to HD for vimeo. And how?
Because i´ve Windows, so with PREMIERE it make me a TOO HEAVY video (i read you tutorial for this.)
I think this program SUPER is better and easyer for encode than Premiere media encoder.
Can you help me to do this with the SUPER?
Thanks a lot! You are great!
eugenia.gnomefiles.org/images/super-720p.png
Sorry, no Spanish, I am Greek.
Fabulous!
When i have all right, i sent you my webpage for show you.
Bye
Saludos!
Tomás
Buenos Aires, Argentina
880x480 gives an aspect ratio of 1.833:1, whereas 16:9 should give 1.7778.
If i multiply 480 by 1.7778, i get about 853... so shouldn't the size be around that, not 880?
i have NTSC, and my project settings are 720x480 with 1.2 pixel ratio interpretation (I use a crappy sony DVD camcorder so i have to demux it, convert the ac3 to mp3, then link it again in premiere pro).
how come the horizontal resolution is 880?
As for color grading, I am using any tools that will help me. From freeware plugins, to built-in Vegas, to commercial Magic Bullet. There's not a "single" color grading you apply, each scene is different and you have to improvise each time.
what a pain to find!
PS: PAL Widescreen DVD > Vimeo, used 640x360 with 816kbps bitrate. Didn't notice any difference in quality if I go higher.
Even though I would be smudging the original, and since it now seems the only way to be processed as HD, wouldn't it provide a better viewing experience if I blew up the movie to 1280*720?
Or maybe, for the sake of how well you view it online, and considering vimeo no longer takes advantage of this 880*480 size, shrinking it anyway, I should just forget about this 880*480 size and stick with a fine tuned 640*360 (assuming this is the resolution vimeo uses in standard full screen)?.
What do you think?
vimeo.com/1781008
And it's the second time I finish my upload limit uploading video to check the result. Do you have any extra tip?
Thanks,
dieego.
Well, making more and more tests I discovered what the problem was. While exporting it was exporting as 680x480 with display size as 880x480. I guess it was uploading as 680x480 instead of 880. Problem fixed. Thanks for your reply. Very nice of you.
Best,
Dieego.
vimeo.com/2055064
Can you or anyone else tell me what I've done wrong? Thanks!
(miniDV SD widescreen)
Cheers!
So I guess I need to go back to the Adobe Premiere Pro project and re-encode the whole movie (de-interlaced) and then run it through Super again?
just want to ask why 880x440 is recommended for PAL 16:9.
Joseph Choi asked it in this thread 5 months ago but I don't really understand why 864 and 880 are recommended?
The closest number to 440*16:9=853 which devides by 16 is 848; So I would use 848x480.
If somebody want to have less then 3 pixels stretch in Y direction, you can resize to 848x478 and padd 1 pixel below and above. For me it seems to be the most correct way for PAL 16:9.
Am I wrong?
For example if I export from Premiere in 720x576 with 1.4333 (pure 16x9) it means that I should use 848x480 or 1024x576.
(of course if the input to Premiere was in pure 16:9)
Same for encoding from PAL DVD.
Capturing from HV20 will also lead to real 16x9 (1280x720) so it should be treated as 848x480?
In other words one should keep an eye on the source of footage to choose right resolution for square pixels rather than on settings of NLE?